Charles Manson: This actor plays him in both 'Mindhunter,' 'Once Upon a Time in Hollywood'
Being told you look like Charles Manson isn't exactly a high compliment.
But Australian actor Damon Herriman has been hearing it quite frequently from friends and family this past month, after dual performances as the infamous cult leader in Quentin Tarantino's revisionist fairy tale "Once Upon a Time in Hollywood" (now in theaters) and the second season of Netflix's "Mindhunter" (now streaming).
"It's only really since I got those roles that people have been like, 'I can kind of see that,' and I've been like, 'Wait a second ... ,' " Herriman says with a laugh. "I don't think I look like Charles Manson in day-to-day life, but knowing I was playing him, people can see that my face could look like that."
Despite filming his brief appearances in both projects within weeks of each other last year, Herriman, 49, says it was a "complete coincidence" that he was cast twice as Manson, who recruited young hippies to join his Los Angeles commune in the late 1960s. Inciting fear among his followers (known as the "Manson Family") that America was on the brink of a race war, he ordered the murders of nine people in summer 1969, including actress Sharon Tate.
"There's a smaller pool of actors going out for Charles Manson, because there's a physical requirement of having to be on the shorter side," says Herriman, who at 5 foot 7 inches, is five inches taller than Manson. "Because he's such a scary figure in our minds, a lot of people picture a bigger guy. He didn't like being reminded about how small he was or being portrayed (as such) in the media."
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Before his roles as Manson, Herriman was best known for FX's "Justified" and "Mr. Inbetween," which returns for a second season Sept. 12 (10 EDT/PDT). He chatted with Paste BN about preparing for "Mindhunter," cut scenes from "Hollywood" and whether he'd play the criminal mastermind again.
Question: What kinds of research did you find most helpful to play Charles Manson?
Damon Herriman: There's a really good biography by Jeff Guinn called "Manson" and a great podcast called "You Must Remember This," which has a fantastic Manson series in it. Other than that, it was really just watching dozens of interviews he did in jail. There are lots of those from the early '70s right through the mid-'90s. I edited together a sort of "best of" series of clips I found online into a six-minute thing, which I would watch over and over again, and kind of covered every aspect of him. He had so many different versions of himself that he presented, depending on the day and his mood and who he was talking to. He could be terrifying and angry, or crazy and doing silly faces, or just be calm and almost normal.
Q: Were there any mannerisms that were particularly important for you to emulate in your performance?
Herriman: He moves very differently from how I move. He would often be quite hunched, which is unusual for a guy as short as that, because you typically try to stand up straight. He has a very slithery movement style, so I really had to work on that by watching videos of him walking around the room.
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Q: You appear as Manson in one impactful scene of "Mindhunter," when FBI agents Holden Ford (Jonathan Groff) and Bill Tench (Holt McCallany) come to interview him in jail. Instantly, Manson is able to identify Tench's family troubles and shifts the blame of the Tate murders back on society. Why do you think he was so good at manipulating people and preying on their vulnerabilities?
Herriman: He was charismatic and fascinating to listen to – there's a reason all those people became obsessed with him and hung on his every word. Sometimes he would speak things that made sense, and other times it just seemed like the rantings of a madman. But he spoke with such conviction that you couldn't help but listen and had these incredible, piercing eyes. You can imagine sitting across from those that he could be incredibly convincing, especially to someone much younger, if they're on acid. He was a master manipulator.
Q: Manson appears only very briefly outside Sharon Tate's (Margot Robbie) house in "Once Upon a Time." Did you shoot any more scenes that were cut?
Herriman: We did shoot a little bit more, yeah, but I'm not allowed to say what. There's a possibility that might see the light of day, which would be cool. What Quentin has done brilliantly, though, in keeping it brief is not complicating the Manson part of the movie by trying to show anything other than his presence. It creates a creepiness that hangs over what comes later.
Q: Did you get to hang out with Leonardo DiCaprio and Brad Pitt at all on set?
Herriman: Leo and I didn't have any scenes together, but we worked together a little bit on "J. Edgar" eight years ago. I saw him at lunch one day and we chatted a bit, and he's such a sweet guy. Brad Pitt and I did work together very briefly, and he's so lovely. He's friends with David Fincher and Andrew Dominik (both directors on "Mindhunter"), so he came up to me and said, "Hey, I believe you were just working with a couple buddies of mine."
Q: What kind of toll did these roles take on you mentally?
Herriman: It was horrible reading over and over again, and watching documentaries about what happened over those two nights (of the murders). But actually playing Manson didn't mess with me in that sort of way. I think it would mess with you more if you were playing Jeffrey Dahmer or Ted Bundy or Ed Kemper, these guys whose entire beings were about sexual sadism and enjoyment in hurting others. But Manson is a little different: What he did was truly awful, but it's not like all he talked about was killing people. Plus, my scenes didn't involve anything horrific, either. In "Mindhunter," I'm playing a guy who's being interviewed in jail. What was disturbing was the research beforehand and finding out in great detail what took place and how awful it was.
Q: Would you ever be open to playing Manson again?
Herriman: I think that's highly unlikely. (Laughs.) Twice is amusing, but three times is kind of sealing that as the only thing you're ever going to be known for forever. I should probably quit while I'm ahead.