We talked to a financial therapist so you don't have to (unless you want!)
Talking about money is – in a word – awkward. Maybe that’s why we rarely do it. Our finances are often given the same hush-hush treatment as our sex lives. At least that’s what financial therapist Lindsay Bryan-Podvin thinks.
“In our society, money has been kind of the final taboo,” she says. While we’ve begun to speak more openly about sexuality or body image and food, money habits remain “the big elephant in the room,” she argues.
A 2023 study from financial services firm Empower found that over 6 in 10 Americans don't talk about money. A majority (63%) avoid speaking about it with family and friends (75%), and 46% even avoid speaking about it with their spouse/partner.
Bryan-Podvin's job, a newer specialty in the mental health sphere, focuses on the emotional and psychological side of money. To her, the dollar is, for better or worse, inextricably bound to overall well-being.
And she wants people to start talking about it. If only to dispel some of those pesky questions: like “Am I spending my money well?” “Am I saving enough?” and “What are my peers doing?” Bryan-Podvin thinks these thoughts are all just tiles in a larger mosaic representing the big question: Am I normal?
In conversation with her, we devised five rules for healthy money communication and self-reflection.
1. Spending is OK
There’s an old-school idea that if you’re good with money, you don’t spend it, Bryan-Podvin says.
“That’s not only not true, but it’s not sustainable,” she counters. In her view, money is meant to be spent. Saving is important, of course, but investing in hobbies or experiences that enrich your life or make you feel connected to your community can also have an important place in a balanced budget.
“Spending to take care of ourselves is not only normal, but it’s important,” Bryan-Podvin says.
She doubles as a spokesperson for CashApp whose recent "That's Money" trends report showed an uptick in spending on "small joys." The platform, which allows users to send cash to each other directly indicated a 500% increase in payments with the phrase "sweet little treat" over the past year, as well as a 349% increase in “sweet treat.” Bryan-Podvin points to this trend as an indication that many people are using their money for self-care.
The bottom line: Don't be afraid to spend money to take care of yourself.
2. Personalization is key
While a basic budget structure can be borrowed from traditional models, it won’t work for you unless you personalize it. So much of budgeting advice is prescriptive, Bryan-Podvin says. In not tailoring our spending plans to our actual spending habits, a budget might be doomed to fail.
So if you know that a store-bought coffee is a more valuable simple pleasure to you than a new pair of shoes, let your budget reflect that.
Bryan-Podvin recommends “personalization instead of trying to be really rigid,” and avoiding black-and-white thinking. “It's about finding the space in the middle that feels safe and manageable and helping people define what that means for them,” she explains.
The bottom line: Build a budget based on your own spending habits, not the "ideal" spender.
3. You can give yourself permission
Bryan-Podvin, who still sees clients, says a common thread among many of them is a habit of permission-seeking around money.
Even in adulthood, people feel like they have to ask “Am I allowed to do this?” or “Is this OK?”
It’s unsurprising given that research shows by the time we reach 7 or 8 years old, many of our ideas about money have crystallized. That may mean never bringing up money to avoid conflict because you saw your parents fight about it or having the sometimes flawed mindset that your supply of cash will always be replenished because you were gifted money for big occasions and accomplishments.
Bryan-Podvin uses these examples to explain how the specter surrounding finances in your childhood may follow you into your later years. But it doesn’t have to stick, she says. You can grant yourself permission to change the narrative.
“We’re not trying to erase it,” she says “What we’re trying to do is extend compassion and empathy for why we did what we did and then create essentially a new conclusion or a new story that feels better to us.”
Basically, acknowledge where you are, make meaning of how you got there, and then begin writing a different chapter.
The bottom line: Give yourself permission to spend reasonably, and work to unlearn unhelpful patterns from youth.
4. De-shame debt
Debt, whether from student loans or credit cards, can feel like a scarlet letter.
There is a two-way relationship between debt and clinical depression, Bryan-Podvin reports. The shame and feeling of “wrongness” associated with debt can start to trickle into other parts of your life like sleep, friendships, and work, she says.
Consumer debt has a particularly strong stigma. “You don’t get shamed if you have a mortgage but if you have consumer debt there’s a lot of shame that you had no willpower, or you just couldn’t control yourself,” Bryan-Podvin says.
She encourages diagnosing rather than blaming. Don’t demonize the debt she advises, especially since responsible credit usage is important and you don’t want to fear swiping those cards. Instead, create a doable pay-off plan, and don’t waste time beating up on yourself for what is already done.
The bottom line: Don't beat yourself up over debt. Just make a plan to pay it down.
5. Talk honestly (and early)
Money may seem like a terribly unsexy part of partnership – but it’s a very important one. Bryan-Podvin thinks the biggest mistake most people make is believing that your partner, or even a friend or colleague can read your mind when it comes to money.
You may have an idea of what you’re comfortable spending, and assume that another person knows that, so then when you get a request on CashApp or Venmo for more, you’re upset.
“Talk about it early and talk about it often and be okay stumbling” she advises “So many of us don’t know how to talk about money so we try to kind of like sneak it in here or there and for us it might feel really bold or brash but somebody else might not pick up on the subtleties of what we’re saying.”
In romantic relationships specifically, Bryan-Podvin warns against "doorknob moments" which refers to dropping a major piece of information on your way out the door. It's not strictly literal – the practice includes any time you say something without giving it the time, space, or attention it needs.
“It’s a way that we protect ourselves in the moment,” she says, but ultimately, it does more harm than good because the belief that talking about money is awkward or difficult becomes self-fulfilling if you don't give your partner the respect to have a mutually beneficial conversation.
“It will be uncomfortable but it gets easier with time,” Bryan-Podvin assures.
The bottom line: Don't mention you drained the joint account as you're running out the door on your way to work.