Experts say killer was 'meticulous,' maybe professional in CEO shooting | The Excerpt
On Saturday's episode of The Excerpt podcast: The search continues for a gunman in the killing of United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson. Experts say the killer was maybe a professional. Meanwhile, many online have shown little sympathy. Why? Is the labor market bouncing back? Palm Beach Post Politics and Growth Editor Antonio Fins talks about Mar-a-Lago and how President-elect Donald Trump uses the property as a political hub. Paste BN Justice Department Correspondent Aysha Bagchi discusses whether Donald Trump's election win will help him with his $600 million civil losses. It's the anniversary of Pearl Harbor. See photos of the attack that brought the U.S. into World War II.
Hit play on the player below to hear the podcast and follow along with the transcript beneath it. This transcript was automatically generated, and then edited for clarity in its current form. There may be some differences between the audio and the text.
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Taylor Wilson:
Good morning. I'm Taylor Wilson. And today is Saturday, December 7th, 2024. This is The Excerpt.
Today, the search continues for the gunman who killed UnitedHealthcare's CEO, plus how Trump is using Mar-a-Lago as a political hub. And we remember Pearl Harbor.
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The search for a gunman who killed UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson enters its fourth day today. Police are chasing down hundreds of tips. Healthcare companies have increased security around executives, and security experts warn that precious time is ticking away to catch the shooter. Thompson, the highest ranking executive at UnitedHealthcare, one of the largest insurance providers in the nation, was gunned down outside the Hilton, Midtown Manhattan early Wednesday by a masked gunman who fled the scene on foot and then by bike into Central Park.
In one of the latest developments, NYPD officials told CNN yesterday that the gunman who killed Thompson may have fled New York City on a bus after the killing. Joseph Kenny, the chief of detectives, told CNN, "Police have video of the gunman going into a bus terminal the day of the attack. Based on surveillance video of the brazen killing, even when the weapon appeared to jam, the killer remained composed. He stood over Thompson, fired again, and walked away. The shooter seemed to have taken steps to plan the attack and conceal his identity, including using a fake ID, wearing a face mask, and staying at a hostel. He also did not run a car, but instead fled on foot and then on a bike." Experts are mixed on whether these signs point to a possible professional at work.
Some of the response online to Thompson's killing has been crude and complicated, often fueled by vitriol toward the state of healthcare in the country. Still, others have reminded that Thompson was a human being, a father, Midwesterner, and well-liked executive. You can read more with a link in today's show notes.
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US hiring bounced back in November, with employers adding 227,000 jobs as the adverse toll on payrolls from two Southeast hurricanes and worker strikes largely reversed. But the unemployment rate rose from 4.1% to 4.2%, the Labor Department said yesterday. Still, Jason Schenker, president of Prestige Economics, wrote in a note to clients that the November jobs report should assuage fears of recession. Meanwhile, average hourly pay rose 13 cents to $35.61 cents, keeping the yearly increase at 4%. Pay increases have slowed as pandemic-related worker shortages have eased. Economists have said yearly wage growth needs to fall to 3.5% to align with the Fed's 2% inflation goal.
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President-elect Donald Trump's Mar-a-Lago private club has become a hub for Trump's coalition of disruptors ahead of a second term. I spoke with Palm Beach post politics and growth editor Antonio Fins to learn more. Antonio, thanks for hopping on the show today.
Antonio Fins:
Well, not at all. Thanks for the invite.
Taylor Wilson:
So really, what's its background as a property and how and when did it become Trump's main stomping ground?
Antonio Fins:
At the time in the 1980s, Donald Trump is this kind of this man hand real estate tycoon. He moves into Palm Beach, basically buys his property. And I think at that point, you can make the argument that if you look at the dictionary and you look for the definition of nouveau riche in Palm Beach, that was Donald Trump. This old money crowd, here comes Donald Trump and classic early glimpses of this guy as a disruptor in society. Well, there's a number of fights that ensue between Trump, Mar-a-Lago, and for example, the town of Palm Beach. One battle, legal battle over the height of a huge flagpole and flag that he decides he wants to erect on the property.
And by the way, at that time, Palm Beach society was still very much... One of the things that Trump does is he opens his door to, for example, Jewish members and minorities and so forth that really could not get an inroad into other private clubs in Palm Beach. And then he also makes this a happening place. Again, Palm Beach is his very staid, very conservative, buttoned down society. Trump starts bringing celebrities. Here's Ms. Universe. Here's Sly Stallone. Here's Rod Stewart doing a concert. It becomes this mecca of entertainment and partying during the winter season in Palm Beach, which runs from around Halloween, to about Mother's Day. This is where you have some of the wealthiest people on the planet are residing in Palm Beach because of the weather. The weather's nice. The ocean's nearby.
So this is the opportunity for organizations like the International Red Cross, the Salvation Army, Cleveland Clinic, the Dana-Farber Institute, where they come down and they hold these big elegant galas that they use to fundraise and raise a lot of money. And guess what? Donald Trump, Mar-a-Lago, this becomes the Grand Don for all of these galas until Donald Trump wins the presidency.
Taylor Wilson:
Well, it's a great breakdown. So how have we seen a shift in how Trump uses this property since his first election win in 2016?
Antonio Fins:
The watershed moment is back in August of 2017 when you had that white supremacist march in Charlottesville, Virginia, that became violent. At that point, a lot of the charities that hosted events at Mar-a-Lago, these galas, they moved out. This became too politically toxic or at least very volatile for them. They moved out, and then more of these political groups came in to fill the bookings to basically have their events there.
Taylor Wilson:
And as for the last few weeks, Antonio, who's been showing up there in Palm Beach since his latest election win? And just what's the general sense you get from that property these days?
Antonio Fins:
Now that he has won the presidency again, that he's preparing to return to the White House. We're seeing another metamorphosis that is beyond political organizations having a fundraiser or having an event there to where Mar-a-Lago right now. You can make the argument. It is the center of the American political universe. You have Trump and Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy, all these guys holding court there. Robert F. Kennedy Jr. was there. You have all these folks showing up, talking to them, lobbying, all these announcements, decisions on who they're hiring to be in the administration, the new administration, the White House jobs, the cabinet secretaries, the undersecretaries. They're being decided there now. It's not just a place where you have your political fundraiser, your political event. It is the center of the political universe right now in American politics.
And then what that raises is some concerns that government watchdogs, they basically aired during the first presidency, which is we want open government. You want to know who your president is meeting with because of questions of influence, buying access, getting a leg up on your competition. During the first Trump White House, there are a lot of people that all of a sudden bought Mar-a-Lago memberships because they knew they would get access to him.
Taylor Wilson:
Excellent breakdown for us. I implore the listeners to go check out this full piece with a link in today's show notes. It's a great read. Antonio Fins is the politics and growth editor at the Palm Beach post, part of the Paste BN Network. Thank you so much for hopping on and discussing this, Antonio. I appreciate it.
Antonio Fins:
Not at all. Thank you very much for having me.
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Taylor Wilson:
Donald Trump's election win has helped him in his criminal cases, but will it do the same for his $600 million civil case losses? I caught up with Paste BN Justice Department correspondent Aysha Bagchi for more. Hello, Aysha.
Aysha Bagchi:
Hi, Taylor.
Taylor Wilson:
So Aysha, let's talk about the $600 million or so in civil case judgments against Donald Trump. Just a huge number. Let's retrace our steps a little bit here at the top. Where did these judgments come from and how were they decided?
Aysha Bagchi:
These are three separate judgments in cases that unfolded in New York. The biggest one is Donald Trump's civil fraud judgment that was rendered in a New York State court. He received a judgment back in February for about $454 million. And that included quite a lot of interest that had accrued even before the judgment was issued. But interest keeps growing on that lawsuit. So now, we're seeing a judgment against him that is totaling about $485 million.
And then there are two cases involving New York writer Eugene Carroll. One of those cases involved allegations of sexual abuse and defamation against Donald Trump, and another one involved other allegations of defamation. And across those two cases, Carroll received jury verdicts for $88.3 million. And also with those verdicts, interest is continuing to accrue. He has appealed. And the question is really whether his election is going to impact the picture for those cases. It has really helped him with his criminal ones, but we've yet to see if he's going to make the argument in court that it should also help him with these massive civil judgments.
Taylor Wilson:
Well, let's talk through that a little bit, Aysha. What might Trump argue and really what do legal experts say about those potential arguments?
Aysha Bagchi:
Yes, this would be pretty novel. The Supreme Court did render a judgment for Donald Trump in one of his criminal cases back in the summer in July about presidential immunity that carries some language in it that Donald Trump could try to apply to his civil cases. That case was his federal election interference criminal case. And the Supreme Court basically said that a president is immune from prosecution for various types of official presidential acts.
But the language that the majority of the court talked about and used in that decision really had to do with the idea of burdening the presidency. And we've seen since Donald Trump's election, the Justice Department drop its two federal criminal cases against him, and he has also filed motions asking courts in his Georgia and New York State criminal cases to have those charges dropped as well. And part of what Donald Trump has said there is that these cases, having them pending, even if they are just paused for the duration of his next presidency, there'll be a type of unconstitutional interference and distraction with his presidency.
We haven't seen those state courts rule on Donald Trump's arguments yet, but it's also the type of argument that we might see him make in his civil cases. Already, one of his lawyers, John Sauer, who has been nominated to become Donald Trump's Solicitor General, basically the person who makes arguments for the administration at the Supreme Court, John Sauer sent a letter to New York Attorney General Letitia James saying, "You should just choose to drop this civil fraud case that you brought against Donald Trump, in part because he's been elected president and there are serious grave constitutional concerns." This is what John Sauer said.
I did reach out for comment from his transition team and they didn't really speak to this question of whether they're going to formally make this argument in court, but they did rail against the types of cases that Donald Trump has been facing in recent years.
A lot of legal experts actually didn't want to talk to me for the story. I think that might indicate that these are really novel and unsettled questions. We've seen presidents face civil lawsuits before, but Donald Trump is kind of unique in just the number of lawsuits he's faced over his lifetime. He and his businesses have faced more than 4,000 lawsuits just in history, and he had a lot of lawsuits pending even in his first presidency. So those are unique issues for courts to be grappling with.
And then the Supreme Court has issued a major ruling when it comes to criminally prosecuting a president. And I think a lot of legal experts really haven't fully digested what that type of ruling could mean in the broader legal context. But I did talk to some legal experts who said that if you're judging by just the existing decisions that are on the books from the Supreme Court and other courts, then these cases should be able to go forward.
They pointed in particular to a case Clinton v Jones. This is when Paula Jones, she filed a lawsuit against Bill Clinton alleging that he had sexually harassed her before he was president, and the Supreme Court had to rule on whether that lawsuit could go forward given that Bill Clinton was president. And at the time, a unanimous Supreme Court said that it could. It was a federal lawsuit. And they said that that was okay.
One thing Trump could argue is that opinion didn't really appreciate how many lawsuits someone like him could face. John Paul Stevens wrote in the opinion that only three previous sitting presidents had faced civil lawsuits for private conduct. So he didn't really expect this to be something that would engulf the presidency and become a big burden. And maybe Donald Trump could argue that the picture looks different today, that maybe because the size of these judgments or because of how many civil lawsuits he faces, that wasn't a good prediction of how civil cases could affect the presidency.
Taylor Wilson:
All right, interesting next few weeks and months. Aysha Bagchi covers the Justice Department for Paste BN. Thank you, Aysha.
Aysha Bagchi:
Thanks, Taylor.
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Taylor Wilson:
Hidden beneath Earth's surface are caverns and pathways that hold the secrets of our planet's very beginnings. Even after decades of exploration, there are still new ecosystems and signs of past lives yet to be studied. Who are these cave explorers? What have they found and what do they still hope to discover? Phil Short, experienced cave diver and research diving and training lead at DEEP joins The Excerpt to take us down below back in time and into the future. You can find that episode with my co-host Dana Taylor tomorrow, right here on this feed.
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Franklin Roosevelt:
Yesterday, December 7th, 1941, a date which will live in infamy.
Taylor Wilson:
Those are the words of President Franklin D. Roosevelt as he addressed Congress following the surprise attack on Pearl Harbor. Today marks the 83rd anniversary of the Japanese attack on the naval base in Hawaii that were over 2,400 casualties, including service members and civilians. The event marked the United States entry into World War II.
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Thanks for listening to The Excerpt. You can get the podcast wherever you get your audio, and if you're on a smart speaker, just ask for The Excerpt. I'm Taylor Wilson, and I'll be back Monday with more of The Excerpt from Paste BN.