Native art has a rich history, but young artists want to expand | The Excerpt
On a special episode (first released on January 2, 2025) of The Excerpt podcast: For centuries, Native American art has been viewed through the lens of collectors, art historians, and tourists. But how have Native artists considered their own work? For many tribal artists, there was a financial incentive to create objects that would appeal to non-Natives. But that’s changing. Across the U.S., Indigenous artists are fighting stereotypes, protesting cultural appropriation, and carving spaces for their work in museums and galleries beyond those reserved for Native artists. Indigenous Affairs Reporter Debra Utacia Krol, a correspondent for The Arizona Republic, part of the Paste BN network, joins The Excerpt to discuss how Native art has grown and evolved.
Hit play on the player below to hear the podcast and follow along with the transcript beneath it. This transcript was automatically generated, and then edited for clarity in its current form. There may be some differences between the audio and the text.
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Dana Taylor:
Hello and welcome to The Excerpt. I'm Dana Taylor. Today is Thursday, January 2nd, 2025, and this is a special episode of The Excerpt.
For centuries, Native American art has been viewed through the lens of collectors, art historians, and tourists. But how have Native artists considered their own work? For many tribal artists, there was a financial incentive to create objects that would appeal to non-Natives, but that's changing. Across the US, Indigenous artists are fighting stereotypes, protesting cultural appropriation, and carving spaces for their work in museums and galleries beyond those reserved for Native artists. Here to discuss how Native art has grown and evolved is Indigenous affairs reporter, Debra Utacia Krol, a correspondent for The Arizona Republic, part of the USA Today Network. Debra, it's great to have you back on.
Debra Utacia Krol:
Thanks for having me back on, Dana.
Dana Taylor:
One of the things you write about in your series is that many Indigenous peoples don't have a word for art. Rather, the objects, motifs, and designs serve as expressed cultural values. Can you unpack this for us? What does it mean and how does it shape and inform the pieces that are made?
Debra Utacia Krol:
Many peoples have always expressed their prayers, have expressed their cultural values in the pieces that they create for use in everyday life. Here in the Southwest, you see a lot of motifs relating to water. You see rain clouds. You see rain. You see birds. Birds tell you where the water is. You also see dragonfly motifs. Dragonflies tell you where the drinkable water is. And there's images like corn, there's images like animals, there's images like plants. There's wedding cups with the two clans upon the cup, reflecting two families joining together in marriage. All of these things have to do with everyday life and with cultural life and with spiritual life in Native peoples' communities.
Dana Taylor:
Many people think of turquoise or certain geometric patterns as being foundational to this kind of art. Why does that stone or those shapes play such a prominent role here? And are there other design elements that are meaningful?
Debra Utacia Krol:
Turquoise had become a symbol of Native art, even though it's only found mostly here in the Southwest. A lot of that is directly attributable to The Fred Harvey Company encouraging Native artisans here in the Southwest to create pieces with silver and turquoise and with a certain small number of stamps, like arrowheads and teepees and thunderbirds, even though some of these weren't necessarily motifs, even of Southwestern peoples.
In pre-contact days, you would've rarely seen turquoise outside of the Southwest. Now, of course, we see it everywhere, and that's because people have come to associate that with Native art. And some of these other motifs are also due to the commercialization and commodification of the Native art industry, and primarily right back to The Fred Harvey Company, which as people moved West and became tourists, the tourism industry grew. That was what they encountered was turquoise jewelry, Navajo rugs, Pueblo pottery, and baskets.
Dana Taylor:
You talk to a wide variety of Indigenous artists from across the US. Some still create traditional pieces such as pottery, jewelry, and textiles, but many others are pushing out of those lanes. What do these artists tell you about breaking down walls and how they define art?
Debra Utacia Krol:
Just like artists in the mainstream, Native artists and Native art is an ever-changing, ever-evolving field. And Pat Pruitt illustrated that with his ancestors were happy to have a couple of rocks to bang the turquoise together or a railroad tie upon which to hand shape a piece of silver. Now they have electric drills. They have computers. They have all sorts of things, and they can take their mindset, they can take their traditional cultural motifs and move them in totally new directions.
And it's not necessarily just cultural motifs. A lot of Native artists are using popular culture as part of their art. We see a lot of graphic artists. We see a lot of superhero art. They are growing and changing just as other artists are growing and changing. And some of them you wouldn't even know were Native unless you happened to know the artist was a Native American. And others are taking these motifs and moving them into the 21st century. So you would know that this was a Native artist, but the way they're expressing it is very contemporary.
Dana Taylor:
One of the artists you spoke with grew up along the US-Canadian border in Maine, and he makes these fantastical and bright woven baskets. Can you tell us about his work and how he's evolved as an artist?
Debra Utacia Krol:
Jeremy Frey is one of those artists who've really busted out of being considered a Native artist to be a world-class artist. He actually learned from his mother and from other Passamaquoddy and Penobscot basket weavers, and he always had a mind to create art. He always wanted to be an artist. I mean, I've known him for like 20 years, and you can see the evolution. You can see the flow. You can see how he's taken what was basically a craft and turned it into art of the highest form. He's always thinking about what's the next basket going to be.
A lot of his baskets still have the Passamaquoddy, the urchin style, but now he's making vases. We went to a opening of his in Los Angeles at the Karma Gallery, and he's actually deconstructed these very traditional baskets by weaving them flat. And so you can see where the weaving is and where the construction is, and it would be just a matter of simply putting this big flat weaving on a form and then reforming it and you would have a basket. He is really taking this very, very ancient traditional art and craft form to a whole new level.
Dana Taylor:
Art resembling that created by Indigenous people has shown up in chain stores like Urban Outfitters and online retailers such as Amazon. Do you think there's a general awareness by consumers that many of these pieces sold online are manufactured by non-Native companies? Does that matter to the consumer? And if so, why? Or if not, why not?
Debra Utacia Krol:
I think the average consumer is totally not aware that these items are not real, that they're simply fakes and counterfeits. And for some of them it's like, "Oh, I don't care because it's cheap." But there are other people to whom it does matter, because when they purchase something, they assume it's going to be actually created by an Indigenous person, and it turns out to be something that's made by somebody in a sweatshop somewhere in Asia. It makes them feel cheated.
And that's why the work of the Indian Arts and Crafts Board and the work of different tribes to raise awareness of why it's important to buy only from actual Native artists is so important. And why it's important to raise awareness that these companies are creating counterfeit art and skirting around the law that was made to protect Native artisans here in the United States.
Dana Taylor:
How are tribal artists combating this? Are there specific things that they're doing?
Debra Utacia Krol:
One really important way that tribal artists are being encouraged to protect their art is by trademarking, registering with the US Trademark Office, because it's easier to protect and enforce a trademark than it is to enforce Native art. There are some artists who are a little weary of that, but in the long run, it's better to protect your art than to not protect your art.
Another way that Native artists are working to raise awareness is through what we're doing here, having people talking to the media to show the difference between something that's made by an actual Native artist and one that's made in a sweatshop somewhere in Asia by people who make very, very little, and then these middle marketers reap the profit. And by shop owners like Liz Romero who got caught out, and who now is spreading the word of why you have to be very careful where you buy.
And of course now we've seen some of these tribes who are being a lot more careful, who they let into their vendor spaces, their art stores, their powwows, their big times, or any other place where people are purchasing Native art. The Indian Arts and Crafts board, of course, is doing everything it can, working with other governmental agencies like the US Fish and Wildlife Service to try and stop this tsunami of fake art from reaching the shores. Because in the end of the day, it's artists right here in the United States who are being hurt by fake art.
Dana Taylor:
You write that Indigenous art is big business, but no one knows how big. Why don't we know?
Debra Utacia Krol:
It's really difficult to try and do any significant studies. One reason is because it's a lot of cash business. Another reason is because you have artists who have homegrown studios. Most artists are working on their kitchen tables or in their garages. And it's a really, really hard thing to get enough of a good sample size or enough of a significant sample to figure out exactly how big the business really is. But what we do know is that it is one of Indian Country's largest industries. It's gaming, tourism, and art. I mean, that's pretty much what it is.
Dana Taylor:
How important is selling art to the financial health of the Indigenous community?
Debra Utacia Krol:
I would say, and according to what the First Peoples Fund was saying, a good one-third of all Native people engage in some form of art. Whether it's the really high-end art by Jeremy Frey or a Doug Hyde or the grandma who makes bead work to sell, to make a few extra bucks to help her grandkids out, there is such a huge number of Native people who are engaged in some form of art.
Dana Taylor:
And then finally, Debra, what does the future for Native art look like? How is it evolving still?
Debra Utacia Krol:
The future is looking towards art becoming yet more contemporary. And as more technologies come into play, digital art is starting to become a big factor. Anything that people can use technology-wise, artists are going to be soon following whatever new technologies there are. And yet, there are still artists who are going to be creating very, very traditional art. It's hard to use technology to make a basket. I mean, you can't get around it. But on the other hand, you can take a 3D printer and make pot. So you're going to continue to have this mix of really cool technologically-based Native art and very traditional created Native art and everything in between.
Dana Taylor:
Debra, thank you so much for coming back on The Excerpt.
Debra Utacia Krol:
Thanks for having me back again, Dana.
Dana Taylor:
Thanks to our senior producers, Shannon Rae Green and Kaely Monahan for their production assistance. Our executive producer is Laura Beatty. Let us know what you think for this episode by sending a note to podcasts@usatoday.com. Thanks for listening. I'm Dana Taylor. Taylor Wilson will be back tomorrow morning with another episode of The Excerpt.