What to expect after Pope Francis' death | The Excerpt
On Wednesday’s episode of The Excerpt podcast: Paste BN National Correspondent Marco della Cava talks about his experience covering conclaves and what to expect from the process to select a new pope. The Trump administration proposes a major shake-up of the State Department. Health Secretary RFK Jr. says eight artificial dyes will be phased out of the U.S. food supply. Paste BN Investigative Reporter Nick Penzenstadler discusses the latest on a pair of men deported to El Salvador. Tesla profits plummet.
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Taylor Wilson:
Good morning. I'm Taylor Wilson, and today is Wednesday, April 23rd, 2025. This is The Excerpt.
Today, what's next after the death of Pope Francis. Plus, a major overhaul of the State Department might be on the way. And we discussed the latest on a pair of deported men in El Salvador.
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In the wake of Pope Francis's passing we now move toward his funeral set for Saturday, and later a conclave when the next Pope will be selected. I spoke with Paste BN national correspondent Marco della Cava, who previously covered a pair of conclaves, to learn more about what's next. Hello, Marco, thanks for joining me on this.
Marco della Cava:
Yeah, my pleasure.
Taylor Wilson:
So, tell us a bit first about your experience covering conclaves and even a papal funeral.
Marco della Cava:
Yeah. Well, I was sent over to Rome by Paste BN when John Paul II was ailing, and I think he literally died when I landed. And so, I ended up covering his funeral about a week later in St. Peter's Square, which was very dramatic. And then I stayed on for a couple of weeks as the conclave unfolded that then elected Pope Benedict. And then I went back a dozen years ago because Benedict rather abruptly decided to sort of retire, and so I went back and covered the election of the late Pope Francis.
Taylor Wilson:
Wow. And so, what really stood out to you, Marco, from those reporting trips?
Marco della Cava:
Well, it's a combination of things. It is sort of how political the actual voting ends up being, as many people might have gleaned from watching the movie Conclave, which was Oscar nominated this year. It does a pretty accurate job of talking about the different factions and one person in the end, one cardinal in the end has to get two-thirds of the vote. So, it's all the jockeying to get that person all of those votes.
That's all happening under lock and key in the Sistine Chapel and the Vatican dormitories. You don't know anything of what's going on during that time, but on the outside you've got all the faithful, the pilgrims, which this year actually is amazing, it's the jubilee year for the Vatican, for the Catholic Church, which they've been preparing for a year, and it's where they invite Catholic pilgrims from all over the world to just come to Rome. So, it's going to be an amazing site with all the crowds gathering out front and then waiting as that smoke goes from black to white, and the white smoke means that they've actually picked a pope.
Taylor Wilson:
All right. And in terms of what to expect this week, Marco, we now know the funeral will be Saturday. World leaders and others expected to descend on Rome for this. What else should we expect for the funeral?
Marco della Cava:
Well, the funeral apparently will be in St. Peter's Square, which is exactly where the one for John Paul II was. His casket made the rounds in the square and people were very moved, many of them trying to touch the casket. So, that actual funeral procession and then the funeral mass outside, very dramatic, very filled with tradition and amazing pageantry.
And then when that's over, basically a bit of quiet probably after that. And then once all the cardinals, 252 of them, arrive in Rome, those who don't already live there, then they start going into the conclave and then you'll see people gathering every day in the square, waiting for that smoke. Usually twice a day. In my experience, it was two votes a day.
Taylor Wilson:
Wow. In terms of just functionally, as you mentioned this Conclave movie last year, the timing of all this is really fascinating. Folks have been talking about this process for months. What will it functionally look like this time around, Marco? And what can you tell us about the expected timeline here?
Marco della Cava:
Well, timeline-wise, typically the conclave starts, call it 15, 20 days or so after the funeral. It allows everyone to get settled and situated. And then once they start gathering and meeting and then actually taking the votes, you literally know nothing other than that smoke.
Now, in Rome, you've got lots of newspaper reporters who literally only write about the Vatican and they're going to be spinning all sorts of conjectures about who the front-runners are. Is it somebody that's going to be progressive like Pope Francis was, or is it somebody who's going to be more conservative? I've already read suggestions that they might go with a cardinal who's got a lot of international experience. There's one gentleman who spent a lot of time in the Middle East, and that might be somebody they might go with given all the world events. So, it'll be interesting to see which way they go. And there hasn't been an Italian pope in a while, and typically Italian popes are something, well, the Italians certainly like.
Taylor Wilson:
Right. Should be a fascinating next few weeks. Marco della Cava is a national correspondent with Paste BN. Thank you, Marco.
Marco della Cava:
You bet.
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Taylor Wilson:
The Trump administration is proposing a major overhaul of the State Department. The move would eliminate more than 100 offices, including some working on war crimes and rights advocacy, to ensure the agency is in line with Trump's America-first priorities. The plan would eliminate 132 of the department's 734 bureaus and offices according to an internal State Department memo seen by Reuters. Undersecretaries will submit plans to reduce staff by 15%. The shakeup comes after thousands of government employees have already been laid off as part of Trump and Elon Musk's efforts to shrink the federal government.
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Eight artificial dyes will be eliminated from medications and the nation's food supply by the end of 2026. That includes those found in candy, ice cream, soft drinks, and jams according to Health Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. The artificial dyes detailed during a news conference yesterday are used to offset color loss due to exposure to light, temperature extremes, as well as to provide color to colorless and fun foods according to the Food and Drug Administration.
For years, Kennedy has railed against so-called big food and big pharma and blamed what he's called the nation's chronic disease epidemic on additives and junk food, including during his campaign for president in the 2024 Democratic primaries, and then as an independent. After endorsed, President Donald Trump, Trump incorporated those ideas into his own campaign and they're now part of the new administration's Make America Healthy Again agenda. A study by California's Environmental Protection Agency in 2021, linked consumption of synthetic food dyes to hyperactivity and other neurobehavioral problems in some children. Similar studies also previously prompted the European Union to restrict food coloring.
One of President Donald Trump's more controversial cabinet appointments was Robert F. Kennedy Jr. for secretary of Health and Human Services. Health experts are now weighing in on his tenure so far with some strong criticisms.
Dr. Richard Besser:
What we've seen so far from the secretary who says that he's interested in chronic disease, he's basically come in and wiped out all of the expertise that the Centers for Disease Control is focused on chronic disease.
Taylor Wilson:
That was former acting CDC Director Dr. Richard Besser. Dr. Besser joined my colleague Dana Taylor to talk through some of the medical community's concerns. You can find that episode right here beginning at 4:00 P.M. Eastern Time.
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Lawmakers are pushing for answers on a Venezuelan stylist and asylum seeker sent to El Salvador. I spoke with Paste BN investigative reporter Nick Penzenstadler to learn more about Andry Jose Hernandez and for some of the latest on another deported man, Kilmar Abrego Garcia.
Nick. Hiya, sir.
Nick Penzenstadler:
Hey, Taylor. Thanks for having me on.
Taylor Wilson:
Thanks for hopping on. So, just starting with this, who is Andry Jose Hernandez and what's his deportation story?
Nick Penzenstadler:
So, we know about him as the 31-year-old hairstylist from Venezuela. He came to the United States and claimed asylum as part of protected class being a gay member in Venezuela and says he was discriminated against. So, he came here seeking asylum and then was recently sent to El Salvador as part of this recent roundup.
Taylor Wilson:
All right. So, how and why are lawmakers really pushing for his release?
Nick Penzenstadler:
So, he is one that has been alleged to have been tied to this Tren de Aragua criminal gang. And he insists that he is not. And it seems like the biggest allegation is that he had these tattoos that tied him to that gang. He insists the tattoos have nothing to do with the gang and they're a reference to his mother and father. But nonetheless, he is in this infamous prison in El Salvador.
Taylor Wilson:
Tell us about CoreCivic. What is this and how does it enter this story?
Nick Penzenstadler:
Hernandez was detained and questioned at this Otay Mesa Detention Center, which is run by CoreCivic, a private detention center group. And in part of their screening process, they alleged he was a member of the Tren de Aragua gang. Despite his insistence that he wasn't, they noted that he had these tattoos and they signed a report saying so.
And the people who worked on that report, among them was this Charles Cross Jr. who we were backgrounding and discovered was a former Milwaukee police officer who was fired in 2012 after a string of misdeeds, and he had a misdemeanor criminal case. So, he's now working for CoreCivic and was involved with this man who was then later deported by ICE.
Taylor Wilson:
Okay. And in terms of the administration's perspective here, and also just I guess what we hear from CoreCivic, what do we hear from both of those camps?
Nick Penzenstadler:
We should mention that Robert Garcia, the Democratic lawmaker from California, has kind of attached himself to this case and he's lobbying for Hernandez's return. He has now sent these oversight letters to both ICE and CoreCivic, wanting to know more about this process. So, ICE has said that he was correctly identified as a member of this gang and deported. CoreCivic has said they do this screening for the gang affiliations as part of their safety protocol, and that any decisions for a deportation are made by ICE and not relying on their evaluations.
Taylor Wilson:
Democratic lawmakers traveled to El Salvador this week. This, of course, comes after another Democratic lawmaker, that was Senator Chris Van Hollen, went last week and met with another deported man, Kilmar Abrego Garcia.
What can you tell us about this week's lawmaker trip, Nick, and how is it now part of a broader push, I guess, from US lawmakers making these in-person visits to Central America?
Nick Penzenstadler:
Right. So, there was this group of four Democratic lawmakers that went down there this week to push for their return. They were meeting with Salvadoran officials and the US Embassy to see what was being done, if anything, to "facilitate" the return of these folks. They have said that they're going to do everything they can to try to push for these answers, but I think a lot of this is going to come down to what the courts say.
Taylor Wilson:
And speaking of Kilmar, I mean, he was, of course, a big part of this conversation last week and the week prior. What's the latest on him, Nick?
Nick Penzenstadler:
His attorney is arguing that the government is failing to turn over some of the information they're seeking. This is the discovery and it's the expedited discovery phase as Judge Xinis has said, where she wants a fast response from the government to lay out what evidence they have, what authorities they're quoting, and what they're relying on to keep him abroad.
And this has come to a little bit of a pinch point where his attorneys say, the government has not produced this, the government says they have, and they want a hearing from the judge. The judge ordered the government to provide more information, and she had some pretty strong language calling it willful and a bad faith refusal to comply with her orders. And she has ordered them to respond by 6:00 P.M. Wednesday with better answers.
Taylor Wilson:
All right. Nick Penzenstadler is an investigative reporter with Paste BN. Thank you, Nick.
Nick Penzenstadler:
Thank you.
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Taylor Wilson:
Tesla CEO Elon Musk said he would soon be spending less time with the Trump administration after first quarter earnings fell short of expectations. Net income for the quarter was down 71% at Tesla after a decline in vehicle deliveries with the company battling growing competition from foreign brands, shifting trade policies, and growing backlash to the brand after Musk aligned himself with the Trump administration.
The slump comes as Tesla, along with other automakers adjust to auto tariffs imposed by President Donald Trump. In a Tuesday financial report, Tesla said rapidly evolving trade policy has impacted the global supply chain and the company's cost structure. While Tesla assembles its vehicles in the US, the automaker is exposed to tariffs because it imports parts from other countries.
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Thanks for listening to The Excerpt. You can get the podcast wherever you get your audio. And if you use a smart speaker, just ask for The Excerpt. I'm Taylor Wilson. I'll be back tomorrow with more of The Excerpt from Paste BN.